As I scan the blogosphere I never ceased to be amazed just how much many Yessers do not understand the necessary evil of an independent Scotland within the EU and think, like many Brexiteers, it will be all sunshine and roses if only it were not for that damned EU.
So let us park the reality the Scottish fishing industry would gain little but lose much on EU exit nor that many small farmers would go to the wall, leaving the big land owners to hoover up even more land (the very thing the left of RIC are fighting to stop with their cries for land reform) and think how would an independent Scotland outside the EU, from the start off, work?
We would be in the same position as the xenophobic Tory Party are, with their current plans to park the UK Parliamentary Union outside of the EU by 2019. An about to be independent Scotland could not negotiate nor begin talks with even the WTO until the UK, as is, exits the EU. The bottom line here is that until the day the UK leaves the EU it is tied into all the worldwide trading arrangements the EU has negotiated on all members behalf.
We would, for cross border trading with England, at least, be tied to the same plummeting pound which today was trading $1 to 89 pence, the lowest level since 1985 and expected to be at Euro 1:1 levels by Monday 10th October according to Reuters sources. Let us not forget even the Tory aligned Fraser-Allender Institute which is not knowingly independence aligned, is expecting an economic disaster for Scotland, outside of the EU, with jobless rates rising and wages worth 20% less in buying power by 2020 compared to 2016.
This begs the question just why does the anti-EU Yes community want to ditch the offer of guaranteed EU entry for an independent Scotland, automatic entry into the EU's worldwide trading arrangements for our industries which are already using them, a move which would mean hardly a blip in income for the average Scots citizen while establishing Scotland as a nation state in the eyes of the world. A nation state already set up to continue to gain the same advantages for its people, it already enjoys as part of the UK in the EU.
Only the truly ignorant can claim that we would simply be swapping London for Brussels. As a nation state in the EU we would have the same clout in the Council of Ministers (the ultimate decision making body) as Germany or France. By aligning with like minded EU nations we have a higher chance of altering proposed EU legislation to our benefit than the SNP MPs at Westminster would ever have, as made clear by the Tory Government's current plans to steam roller Brexit through with minimal UK Parliament involvement. Scotland would ultimately have the right to veto (as the UK did with the Shengen Agreement), opt out of legislation (as Poland has) or (as is seen in Denmark and Sweden) find reasons not to enact legislation such as Euro integration by ensuring our economy never meets Euro entry conditions.
The argument for an independent Scotland outside the EU begs the question, why have a second independence referendum?
Logically it would make more sense to remain in the UK Union which will give us slightly more leverage than as a new nation state with out any track record of Government borrowing or currency stability when negotiating all the new world wide trade arrangements we will need to negotiate and enact. Trade arrangements we will need to continue exporting all our high value products, if the industries involved survive the initial economic fall out of Brexit or do not do a runner from Scotland prior to 2019. Currently investment in UK business is at an all time low, big UK companies are sitting on big mountains of cash that they could invest in new plant in the UK but they are not. If you want to understand why investment in UK plant has dried up, read the Japanese business community's letter to Ms May and the UK Government. The downside of staying in the UK when exiting the EU will mean at least another ten years of a Tory government we do not elect but, hey!, we would be out of the EU.
Finally, to all those "We want out of the EU" Yessers; you either accept the considered will of the people of Scotland is paramount and work towards an independent Scotland on that basis or you understand why many will look on you with sadness and some view you with distaste because you are disowning the very sovereignty of the people of Scotland you claim to be 'trying to defend' from the over weaning EU by siding with the xenophobic Tories over their bizarre idea of 'sunny fields and better days' to come outside the EU when the reality is increasingly being proved the opposite.
'Yessers' who want to exit the EU can not cut it both ways, legally and constitutionally Scotland's 'Claim of Right' requires both the Scottish Crown and Government to abide by the considered will of the people of Scotland as this is always paramount. We have had a referendum on EU membership in June 2016, in which the people of Scotland, across every constituency, by a sizable majority, expressed its considered will for Scotland to remain within the EU. The situation is clear, you either support the democratic choice of the people of Scotland to be independent within the EU or you are no better than Ms May and her Tories by disregarding this established democratic choice.
The reality is we all have to swallow medicine we may not like to gain the outcome all on the 'Yes' side claim to wish: A sovereign Scottish Nation State, based not on your colour, language or passport but inclusive of all who wish to make Scotland their home and a success. A Scotland where opportunity is based on merit and the ability to take it but the sick, disabled and unfortunate are supported and cared for.
#We are Scotland.
So let us park the reality the Scottish fishing industry would gain little but lose much on EU exit nor that many small farmers would go to the wall, leaving the big land owners to hoover up even more land (the very thing the left of RIC are fighting to stop with their cries for land reform) and think how would an independent Scotland outside the EU, from the start off, work?
We would be in the same position as the xenophobic Tory Party are, with their current plans to park the UK Parliamentary Union outside of the EU by 2019. An about to be independent Scotland could not negotiate nor begin talks with even the WTO until the UK, as is, exits the EU. The bottom line here is that until the day the UK leaves the EU it is tied into all the worldwide trading arrangements the EU has negotiated on all members behalf.
We would, for cross border trading with England, at least, be tied to the same plummeting pound which today was trading $1 to 89 pence, the lowest level since 1985 and expected to be at Euro 1:1 levels by Monday 10th October according to Reuters sources. Let us not forget even the Tory aligned Fraser-Allender Institute which is not knowingly independence aligned, is expecting an economic disaster for Scotland, outside of the EU, with jobless rates rising and wages worth 20% less in buying power by 2020 compared to 2016.
This begs the question just why does the anti-EU Yes community want to ditch the offer of guaranteed EU entry for an independent Scotland, automatic entry into the EU's worldwide trading arrangements for our industries which are already using them, a move which would mean hardly a blip in income for the average Scots citizen while establishing Scotland as a nation state in the eyes of the world. A nation state already set up to continue to gain the same advantages for its people, it already enjoys as part of the UK in the EU.
Only the truly ignorant can claim that we would simply be swapping London for Brussels. As a nation state in the EU we would have the same clout in the Council of Ministers (the ultimate decision making body) as Germany or France. By aligning with like minded EU nations we have a higher chance of altering proposed EU legislation to our benefit than the SNP MPs at Westminster would ever have, as made clear by the Tory Government's current plans to steam roller Brexit through with minimal UK Parliament involvement. Scotland would ultimately have the right to veto (as the UK did with the Shengen Agreement), opt out of legislation (as Poland has) or (as is seen in Denmark and Sweden) find reasons not to enact legislation such as Euro integration by ensuring our economy never meets Euro entry conditions.
The argument for an independent Scotland outside the EU begs the question, why have a second independence referendum?
Logically it would make more sense to remain in the UK Union which will give us slightly more leverage than as a new nation state with out any track record of Government borrowing or currency stability when negotiating all the new world wide trade arrangements we will need to negotiate and enact. Trade arrangements we will need to continue exporting all our high value products, if the industries involved survive the initial economic fall out of Brexit or do not do a runner from Scotland prior to 2019. Currently investment in UK business is at an all time low, big UK companies are sitting on big mountains of cash that they could invest in new plant in the UK but they are not. If you want to understand why investment in UK plant has dried up, read the Japanese business community's letter to Ms May and the UK Government. The downside of staying in the UK when exiting the EU will mean at least another ten years of a Tory government we do not elect but, hey!, we would be out of the EU.
Finally, to all those "We want out of the EU" Yessers; you either accept the considered will of the people of Scotland is paramount and work towards an independent Scotland on that basis or you understand why many will look on you with sadness and some view you with distaste because you are disowning the very sovereignty of the people of Scotland you claim to be 'trying to defend' from the over weaning EU by siding with the xenophobic Tories over their bizarre idea of 'sunny fields and better days' to come outside the EU when the reality is increasingly being proved the opposite.
'Yessers' who want to exit the EU can not cut it both ways, legally and constitutionally Scotland's 'Claim of Right' requires both the Scottish Crown and Government to abide by the considered will of the people of Scotland as this is always paramount. We have had a referendum on EU membership in June 2016, in which the people of Scotland, across every constituency, by a sizable majority, expressed its considered will for Scotland to remain within the EU. The situation is clear, you either support the democratic choice of the people of Scotland to be independent within the EU or you are no better than Ms May and her Tories by disregarding this established democratic choice.
The reality is we all have to swallow medicine we may not like to gain the outcome all on the 'Yes' side claim to wish: A sovereign Scottish Nation State, based not on your colour, language or passport but inclusive of all who wish to make Scotland their home and a success. A Scotland where opportunity is based on merit and the ability to take it but the sick, disabled and unfortunate are supported and cared for.
#We are Scotland.
Ian left confused if the writer wants Scotland in or out of EU?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it is just me but the first para seems contradictory
" I never ceased to be amazed just how much many Yessers do not understand the necessary evil of an independent Scotland within the EU and think, like many Brexiteers, it will be all sunshine and roses if only it were not for that damned EU."
And the more I read the less I understand
But then I am put off when I read insults being resorted to instead of argument
"I never ceased to be amazed just how much many Yessers do not understand "
and more further on
So are you a 'Yes' only if Scotland is outside the EU?
DeleteThe point is quite clear .... Scotland outside the EU would be better off sticking with the UK Union. It is quite clear the author accepts an independent Scotland within the EU is the better option for clear economic reasons.
And yes I fail to understand the logic of folk who will only vote yes if Scotland is outside the EU because it is contrary to the result the majority of Scots voted for in the recent plebiscite.
Your call, do you want Scotland to be independent and successful or a basket case as part of Brexit UK?
What is your argument for Scotland outside the EU which is based on objective evidence as opposed to years of media anti EU propaganda we have been fed since the 1980s.
If you feel insulted maybe you should ask yourself why because there is no intent to insult by this author, just disbelief in what I see as an illogical and unsustainable position taken by anti EU Yessers.
Perhaps tree hugging is your forte?
ReplyDeleteListening and reading also merit close contact and embracing of the argument being put forward and a considered response.
Trolling best left to JK Rowlings and her merry band of troglodytes?
The author's argument is perfectly clear even to a Potterite or unto someone who disagrees but is lucid and ethical enough to repudiate ad hominem pseudo-analysis.
Perhaps tree hugging is your forte?
ReplyDeleteListening and reading also merit close contact and embracing of the argument being put forward and a considered response.
Trolling best left to JK Rowlings and her merry band of troglodytes?
The author's argument is perfectly clear even to a Potterite or unto someone who disagrees but is lucid and ethical enough to repudiate ad hominem pseudo-analysis.
Some of this does sound contradictory, but ultimately, Tarff is going with a Scotland in the EU, before being dragged out by the extreme right wing in WM.
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing though, how many people say, why leave one union but stay in another? They just do not get that these are two very different unions! In one, ie UKok, we are bit players, with little say in how things are run and how things are done, good or bad and it's mostly bad for Scotland. Within the other, ie the EU, we will have an equal say, equal rights and responsibilities, for good or bad. At least we get a say, with proper representation in the EU, which we just do not have right now, we are undermined and under represented by WM at the EU in fact, we have 6 MEP's? When our MEP wanted to go to the EU to discuss fishing re Scotland, he was not allowed they sent an english MEP! Someone mentioned last week, being 'ruled' by the 27, in the EU, would be like tory rule! As I say, within the EU we would be an equal partner, that does not constitute 'being ruled' by the other 27 partners.
So, before engexit, we would need to hav a second indy ref, make it swift, no long campaign! I would play down the yes motto, it gives the no lot a voice. Let's call it, Independence for Scotland, simple, to the point. Out of the EU, under tory rule, Scotland will be ruined, truly ruined by WM.
The "deal" Scotland gets from Westminster is simply imposed on us. We have no say. EVEL, Trident, Brexit, you name it.
ReplyDeleteBut the deal that the EU will offer the UK must be ratified by all 27 remaining members. That is the difference.
Lose 7% of sovereignty in the EU. Or lose 100%, perhaps even the Scottish Parliament itself, in the UK